Possibility to select and remember different tracks and variations in patterns view

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What is the problem?

Patterns mode could be more fit for performance if it would have its own selection of tracks and its own variations, separate from the Sequencer mode. By having the possibility to select tracks independently in Patterns mode, the performer will gain the ability to quickly tweak some parameters for a set of tracks, with no need to deselect anything and reselect again. By having separate set of activated variations in the patterns mode, it would be easier to organize patterns and variations on different rows so they wouldn’t overlap, a not unusual problem currently. Also, user will access the quickest way to activate/deactivate variations view for a set of tracks quickly and avoid making the sequencer view overly busy.

What do you want to achieve?

It would be just awesome to make patterns view remember selected tracks and activated variations separating them from selections/variations in the sequencer view.

Player could just press (or hold) “pattern”, select frequently tweaked tracks and adjust their parameters from there – no need to activate and deactivate them all over again, manually. On leaving the pattern view, regular view could have absolutely different set of selected variations or selected tracks (to tweak other tracks, too, fast and easy).

Patterns view would offer the same for variations, an own selection different than in the Sequencer. This way variations will never overlap with patterns unless player want them to and utilize the underused grid in that view.

Having in mind that you can leave the patterns’ view on release of the button, it would provide fast access for your progressions without all those manual activations and deactivations via the grid. On top of that, the mechanical button provides way more reliable access to what player uses the most rather than pads.

TLDR:

Any links to related discussions?

Any references to other products?

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@ambivalence At least in the way this wish is explained now, I have difficulties imagining it. I also wonder whether it is still valid after Patterns view should be over variations view was declined.

If this wish is still valid, can you simplify its explanation, please? (or anyone else interested, this is a wiki)

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I found a small trick regarding patterns and variation views.

First, press Shift+Patterns to switch to the MIDI view, and then press the Patterns button to switch to the Pattern view.

Next, press Shift+Patterns to return to the Audio view, and turn on the variations for all tracks.

By pressing Shift+Patterns at this point, you can display the Pattern view on top of the Variations view. If you choose a different pattern and press Shift+Patterns again to return to the Audio view, you can access the variations for that pattern quickly.

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@icaria36 I made an edit to illustrate the use case. As it seems to me, this could help a lot with different quirks and pre-requisites with view modes.

@alter thanks, maybe I’ll try that! however, I wish player could get all the navigation controls any second he or she wants without overthinking it like “manufacturer doesn’t want me to go straight where I want, so I need to use that secret route”. it just doesn’t go along with live performances. too many buttons and shortcuts just doesn’t do anything until you enter some view or exit some mode.

It was discussed before, in other topics mentioned above, but still, I can’t understand why you can’t go for a sec in a patterns view, when all the variations are selected. Maybe I’m dumb or something :slight_smile: You just press “patterns” and the device doesn’t react at all, because I haven’t respected pre-requisites. You could press and hold “patterns”, cue one, release it and have all the variations you needed, again, but instead you deselect them, enter patterns, select them again. As it seems to me: just because. A simple conditional like “if all the variations are selected and user still presses the pattern button, alright, player don’t want to play by our rules, but give him what he wants”. Once again, at least it could be a general preference that user could tweak?

Or the same with midi mode, just for the sake of another example. You can’t quickly turn the performance mode from there, you must go to the basic sequencer first. Is there a reason for that? Sure, performance mode doesn’t work with midi, but isn’t it obvious that player wants to apply the performance stuff to the basic view? That button just doesn’t do anything anyways.

Sorry for the rant :sweat_smile: This wish is sort of middle ground between these pre-requesite quirks and a fast access to anything player could want in a moment without any second thoughts.

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@alter while I was writing this, I thought of another possible solution (that could work great along with this wish too):

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This wish boils down to this, right?

You want that the last state of each pattern in Sequencer mode is remembered in Partterns mode. And while you press a specific pattern pad and turn knobs, you get the same changes you would get if you would open that pattern in Sequencer mode and turn the knobs.

Is this correct?

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… and this would also mean that different patterns could have different states. Right now, it seems that if you have track 5 muted, it will continue to be muted when changing variations. I guess this is what you mean by “presets”?

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This wish boils down to this, right?

yep, essentially, this is it.

sort of separated variations/selections for the patterns view and the basic sequencer view, so player could jump between them with just one button and tweak all the parameters for pre-selected tracks, cue variations and so on without any need to deselect one tracks, select others and repeat it all over again. this would make “pattern” button twice more functional, because for now you need “patterns” only when you want to cue another pattern (duh), while all the patterns take just a couple of rows anyway and user needs this view for a moment or so. It would be helpful for live performances, because selection/deselection of specific tracks just, let’s say, to tweak a filter a bit, requires a lot more time and precision in your actions. Also, pads are not that responsive and reliable sometimes.

Just imagine: you need to filter out tracks 1, 4 and 5. They are already selected in the patterns view. You just hold the patterns, tweak the filter, release the patterns button, and voila! Everything that was selected before this action is still selected (some different set of tracks). Without this feature you need to:

  • Deselect everything you have
  • Carefully select specific tracks
  • Make tweaks
  • Deselect the tracks and select all over again what you had in the beginning

The same is about variations: your sequencer view may have one set of variations being activated, the patters view has another. On the one hand, it means that switching to the patterns view won’t make your current variations overlap with patterns on the grid. On the other hand, you don’t need to use pads to activate and deacivate variations (they overlap the basic sequencer too, so you don’t see steps). Plus it makes patterns view more functional, because you won’t use 127 pads for your track anyways.

Actually, I didn’t mean each pattern to have different pre-selections to be saved (for each view). All I wanted to explain in this wish is that player may benefit from the set of two selections and variations to switch between each of them with ease. The button in the corner that also works both “press” and “press and hold” is perfect for fast adjustments.

So, in its core I didn’t mean that when player cues another pattern anything changes in regards of selections or activated variations. It could make a profit for performances like…

You switch to the next pattern and you already know: in that specific part of your composition you’d like to tweak some parameters for such and such track. So, all the selections and activated variations you saved there make a hint for you by themselves, simply because they aren’t hard to notice.

But such a feature may also introduce some unnecessary complications. There are high chances player don’t want his selections and variations to be changed when a new pattern starts to play. The wish isn’t about it, if polyend team decides to implement this, I guess it should be strictly optional.

ps.
I tried my best to explain it further here. In case it makes it clearer, feel free to copypase the most easy-to-understand parts to the wish. Thanks for trying to understand :slight_smile:

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Maybe this wish should be named: “The second set of selections and variations bound to the patterns view” to make it clearer. While the thing you suggested would be something different like: “Make patterns (optionally) remember currently activated selections/variations” or something.

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hey there! could you review this one, please? let me know if there’s still something left to clarify. The wish seems big, but it’s just because I tried to explain the same simple idea in different ways with examples.

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@ambivalence and anyone else interested in this wish. I welcome your help simplifying this wish. I’m not the most advanced Play user but I think I know this instrument fairly well by now, and I have to keep re-reading the wish to understand what it is asking for (and I am not succeeding). Many points on Writing a good feature request are relevant here.

Please focus on one thing. Try to make a self-explanatory title about it, and explain it in a simple and concise way. Without this pat accomplished, providing more details and examples just adds more confusion, imho.

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Could you explain what exactly do you find unclear? I tried my best, really, and at this point I need some help. The first sentence seems to be self-explanotory, I just corrected it one more time:

So, entering “patterns” mode would cancel all the selections and variations that were active in the sequencer view and apply its own set. If there are no active variations and selections in the patterns view (in a newly created project, for example), then pressing “patterns” will just work as a temporary deactivation button. However, when player makes tracks’ selections in that view or activates variations for some of them, it will remain available for fast access whenever user enters the pattern view again. Leaving the patterns view means user gets all the selections/variations that were active in the sequencer mode.

@icaria36, let me know if it’s still unclear or if you want me to explain use cases.

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Ok, after re-reading again, what about this:

Possibility to select and remember different tracks and variations in Patterns mode

This wish is about having two independent sets of selected tracks and variations. The one that already exists in Sequencer mode and a new one in Patterns mode. Correct? The user can jump from Sequencer to Patterns and every time find the different selections they had the last time. A user setting would define whether the current behavior is active (only one set of selections) or the new one (two sets of selections).

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yep, you got it absolutely right. you may also leave the reasons to have it:

  • fast knobs adjustments for frequently selected tracks
  • variations will never overlap your patterns unless you want them to
  • no need to deactivate some specific set of variations to get access to the sequencer grid (and then tediously activate them again)
  • even if you want to select the same set of tracks going one after another, mechanical button is more reliable and effortless than pads’ swipe
  • patterns has “on hold” and “on release” functionality, so it makes switching between the sets really easy
  • often patterns don’t make use of the whole 128 grids and uses just a couple of rows instead; additional set of activated variations allows to utilize the spare space

thanks, @icaria36!

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Okay, thank you for your patience. :slight_smile: What about now?

I’m moving the examples to the comments:

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thanks, it became a lot better and doesn’t seem that scary now :slight_smile: I made the last couple of edits, check it out.

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high hopes it will be considered eventually! this little thing can save a lot of time, if you think about it. this way patterns could be the one-button shortcut to access patterns (duh), some specific set of variations (if needed) and a set of track selections at the same time. user won’t have a need to deselect some tracks and select the others back and forth manually.

patterns button as just patterns view seems to offer too little. chances that user will need to have access to the same selected tracks (having that view active) is low anyways. a separate set of variations is optional, of course, but it could be a global setting for it. pretty please, guys.

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oh, well :clown_face:

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the most awaited UI-related feature that would greatly improve live performance workflow, basically adding a second layer of the tracks’ selection to adjust parameters on the fly.

without it, if you want to adjust one track first, then another set of track, back and forth, you should manually select/deselect them while it could be done with just one «patterns» button that remembers a selection set.

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@here Thanks for your wish. It’s now ready for voting :slight_smile:

1 Like