Allow for sub folders for samples and wavetables

[Lizard-of-Oz]

What is the problem?

As a user with a short memory and little time, but access to a literal shitton of samples and wavetables, I’d like to organize my samples and wavetables in folders so that it is easier to keep them sorted and identify find those I want to use.

What should this feature achieve?

^ This.

And since presets and scenes are also merely files in a filesystem, these too might benefit from supporting folders.

Since the Preset Browser and the Scene Browser are navigated via the clickable (Screen) Encoder, implementing sub folders is simple, the user clicks the folder and it opens, and on top of a sub folder is an entry that takes the user back one folder. The presentation is pretty straightforward, the path on top might have to scroll for longer folder names.

Preset	ACD/Factory Presets
ACD	[up]
FAT	2ch2
WAVS	A Sub Folder >
VAP	Acid Glide
…	…

For the samples and wavetables, this is not so straightforward, because the other encoders are not clickable, i.e. we need to find another way to tell the Synth to enter a folder, and to go back up again.

Reorganization of sounds.

It might be helpful to fingerprint all the files and store the fingerprint plus the name in the preset/scene, so that reorganizing files later will not break the saved scenes and sounds.

A pack function might be added that reads all presets and scenes and copies all referenced samples and wavetables to a special folder. Then all other folders can be removed or reorganized without breaking presets.

When presets are stored in plain text files, users can reorganize their samples and wavetables, and then manually or automatically detect and fix any presets and scenes.

Are there any workarounds?

Print the listing of the sample and wavetable folders and take notes. With an actual pen. Or a pencil. Your choice. Print again and copy notes every time you add samples. Being intoxicated can make these chores more bearable, but may also lead to errors, and will most likely affect your memory.

Prefix file names with something that describes their functions, however that would limit the visible length of the actual filename, and you’d still end up with a very long list.

Any links to related discussions?

Apparently there are limits to the length of a filename, on FAT32 this limit includes the full path, so sub folders might make these problems more common. The actual limits are not known at the moment.

Long filenames can lead to presumed corrupt /workspace folder (includes solution)

Bug Description It is apparently possible to corrupt the /workspace folder or some of its content. This can lead to being stuck at boot. [image] This was initially reported by @cjclip here: Most likely cause If you run into this issue, check your filename lenghts, specifically for your samples if you are using custom samples. In can lead to a scene that can’t be loaded correctly, thereby causing this state. If that is the case, check the filenames of any newly added samples. Alternative …

Store Everything in Plain Text Files

What is the problem? As a user I’d like all artifacts I create on my Synth to be in a format that is readable by humans and machines, so that I can inspect them, compare them, change them in a text editor, and easily write software that automates changes that are tedious to make on the device itself. Closed and proprietary file formats inevitably prevents artists accessing their own work in the long run. There’s no need to do that, so we shouldn’t. What should this feature achieve? JSON is pro…

Introduce tagging of synth patches, to improve patch management and browsing

What is the problem? Having a lot of synth patches on a long list makes it hard to find a suitable patch for the sound you need. The need to scroll through – and maybe audition – all of them until you find one you like (or the one you are looking for) takes a long time. What do you want to achieve? It would be nice if patches could be tagged, e.g. with “bass”, “pad”, “dark”, “album-2024”, etc. And then, when browsing patches, filtering based on tags should be possible. A patch should be able t…

Any references to other products?

Of course:

• 1010music Blackbox (also has a pack function)
• Tasty Chips GRM-1
• Kurzweil K2x00
• Elektron Octatrack, Digitakt, Model Samples

[ricardopeixoto]

This would be a great help indeed.
Thank you.

[DPB]

One workaround to aid organisation is to add a prefix files to indicate function. Eg: prefix Techno scenes with 00, Ambient with 01 etc. Whatever you want, do it for patches if wanted. They will then be grouped in order. I’ve used this sort of method before - not ideal, but it works.

[ricardopeixoto]

That’s what I’ve been doing But it gets messy real fast when you want to load a bunch of samples to try out what material works best.

[Lizard-of-Oz]

@DPB

One workaround to aid organisation is to add a prefix files to indicate function

I’ve added it as workaround, because that would work to an extent, but you’d still have this one ever growing folder to scroll through.

[cjclip]

Not only for samples. We need way to organise all patches by instruments also.

[Lizard-of-Oz]

Patches are already organized by instrument.

On the card:

Also in the preset selector, you only see patches on the left that are for the engine selected on the right:

Or do you refer to something else?

[cjclip]

These are just types of synthesizers. I’m talking about the organization within. If I’m looking for a bass, for example, and I only need bass patches, why should I go through the entire list of all patches?

This is a basic function of all synthesizers, to have the ability to sort sounds by type. I don’t understand how such a feature could be overlooked, ignoring convenient and quick navigation in modern equipment. I’m not even asking for search or the ability to add patches to favorites, just the option to organize them into folders.

[BROCKSTAR]

While I do agree for a system like this, however the problem is sometimes sounds that get put into those specific categories don’t really fit and can be messy still, but I wouldn’t mind a system like that still.

[3xm]

This would really be helpful. I’ve added a reference to my wish about tagging of synth patches, as I think a more general tagging system across patches and samples might be a good idea.

[Lizard-of-Oz]

@cjclip

This is a basic function of all synthesizers, to have the ability to sort sounds by type.

Thanks for the clarification, I can see the value in that.

@cjclip

I don’t understand how such a feature could be overlooked, ignoring convenient and quick navigation in modern equipment.

Maybe that feature is less common than you think, I can’t think of any synthesizer in that price range that has this. No reason not to have this, though, it’s software, so it can be done.

One thing to consider: I can preview samples on my computer (on my Mac I just hit space, and it plays the file), so it’s easy to sort those into folders. But preview of presets outside the Synth is impossible, so I’d need a GUI inside the Synth that allows for creating folders and moving presets there, otherwise the feature would not see much use besides categorizing sounds by name or by origin.

Still, implementing this for all file types might be pretty straightforward, and have a consistent user interface, so I’ll think about how to add this.

@BROCKSTAR

While I do agree for a system like this, however the problem is sometimes sounds that get put into those specific categories don’t really fit and can be messy still,

With categories, the question is who provides them. If it is the user, you’ll buy 5 sound packs that each bring 5 slightly different categories of bass patches, and you’ll end up with 25 different tags for basses, which is useless. If it’s the manufacturer, the categories won’t fit.

That’s why I like user-defined folders

@3xm

I’ve added a reference to my wish about tagging of synth patches, as I think a more general tagging system across patches and samples might be a good idea.

I think tags are definitely a good idea for presets, however they would require a GUI for assigning them inside the synth, which makes for a more expensive wish.

Also folders add a lot of value for samples, because sample libraries already come sorted in folders, being able to persist that information would save a lot of manual categorizing or tagging. Of course, samples might be tagged automatically by folder, which would probably make for a messy experience when importing several libraries with a few layers of subfolders.

So I think having both wishes is good.

[cjclip]

@Lizard-of-Oz

I think tags are definitely a good idea for presets, however they would require a GUI for assigning them inside the synth, which makes for a more expensive wish.

Also folders add a lot of value for samples, because sample libraries already come sorted in folders, being able to persist that information would save a lot of manual categorizing or tagging. Of course, samples might be tagged automatically by folder, which would probably make for a messy experience when importing several libraries with a few layers of subfolders.

So I think having both wishes is good.

I agree that tags complicate things too much and won’t always work correctly. In my opinion, the best and simplest way to implement a structure for patches is through user folders.