Problems MIDI syncing Play and Tracker with other gear

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Hello there, first post on this forum. Using Polyend Tracker and Polyend Play in my setup.

I am trying to have a good sync between polyend Tracker and Play without success. It seems that there is no midithru function so I need to rely on the midi out from one unit to another.

In my setup I am using Expert Sleepers USAMO to send tight Midi Clock signal from DAW to my Eurorack and Elektrons (midi thru between them) and that works very well and very tight but the Polyend units can’t have the same sync even using the same midi signal that’s being provided in parallel using a thru box: (DAW> Audio out > USAMO hardware box > Tracker Midi in > Tracker Midi out > Play Midi in) (USAMO provides audio rate syncable midi clock).

Is there anything I am missing here? Should I switch to USB Midi for Tracker and Play and not using Tracker midi out > Play midi in in this case?

Thanks in advance for any help!

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On the Tracker side you can change the Clock Sync Delay in order to get a tighter clock:

Clock sync delay – from -50 to 50 (Allows compensating latency of the incoming sync signal. Use this with “Clock in” set to MIDI input jack or USB. Unit is tempo-dependent: 1.0 is 1/250 or a pattern step).

Source: Tracker Manual - Polyend

This option does not exist on the Play though.

I’ve never used the USAMO myself so i don’t have any experience with it. But in general i have a much better/stable clock when i make the Tracker or the Play the MIDI clock master and slave everything else to that clock.

In my personal setup i’ve come to rely on the Blokas Midihub in between everything:

  • Tracker or Play send Clock
  • DAW, Eurorack, and all other devices receive that clock.
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Thanks for answering this @Sandroid !

I looked into Clock Sync Delay also, it kind of does the job but not to what I was expecting. I will try to send midi sync in parallel to both units at same time instead of daisy chaining from Tracker to Play to see if I can have better results.

When running only the two units and using Tracker as master clock the timing is as tight as Midi can be so no problems there.

Using Tracker as master isn’t an option for this setup. That’s why I am using USAMO to sync everything else. (it uses Audio Signal from the interface to generate midi sync).

thanks everyone!

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regarding my midi sync issues, just saw this “firmware 1.7: redesigned midi path (increased clock stability with less jitter)”

fingers crossed!

regards

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Definitely. Sending it in parallel instead of chaining definitely helps. Let us know how it goes. :crossed_fingers:

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Did you get this to work?

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Hi Sandroid and all… Thanks for your help…

(Edit) I just bought Play and Tracker, both from Thomann.de just now…)
The more I see and hear of them apart, and together, the more I like & love them… The musical possibilities of a system with both Play and Tracker together are IMO truly astounding, and could never have been imagined a decade ago…
Contrarily, the more I read of them both, the more Midi-DIN nightmares present themselves. This however, can be overcome, I am sure.

A severe gripe; (with memory chips being so cheap now) why doesn’t Polyend hugely upgrade the memory on both Tracker and Poly , and maybe even fit SSD drives?
I suppose the answer is calculated obsolescence, and the presumably upcoming much invigorated Player+ Mk2/ Mk 3, which will ensure continuing & maximised revenue streams for Polyend…

Regarding the midi thru probs, It would seem to me to make sense to clock and stop/start / control the tempo/ of Tracker and Play from an external sequencer (probably my pattern and song-inexhaustible Pyramid, or even my old and rock solid QY 700 with flash drive)

The master sequencer would control all my other Midi Din synths and clock drums. (I want a relatively small and transportable system, without loads of spaghetti cables everywhere.)

Easy to stop/start, (using all the polyphony of Tracker and Play together) as well as the Main external Master clock sequencer controlling external Midi DIN synths, and all of the other program change and CC controllers I want. (and need) I also have two Kenton Control Freaks which should make this easy… (a few fader moves only, I hope…)

My main controller instruments are Starr Labs Ztars, so I send on multiple and normally multi- layered channels…
In this scenario, I think an external sequencer crucial…
No need for workarounds, adding midi splitters / merges / and thru boxes…

It would also make sense (to me) to rout my Medusa along with Ztar midi out to the external (Master) DIN sequencer and then to the other modules DIN-in’s.
The main sequencer would probably clock all, and avoid the Midi-DIN Polyend nightmare syndrome, completely (and hopefully forever)… eg;. One Master sequencer to rule them all.

ie: I shall just allow Tracker and Play to sing together in their full and glorious polyphony, unhindered, alongside other trusty Midi DIN modules and sequencers. :slight_smile:

regards
richard
BG.

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Congrats Richard! And i hope you’ll love them as much as we all do :heart:

Regarding MIDI Thru. That is indeed a bit of a weakspot for the Tracker and the Play.
As they don’t really offer real MIDI Thru, so i hope you aren’t planning on chaining them, else you are going to have a bad time :laughing:. A Kenton THRU-5 can fix that of course.

If i understand you correctly you are planning to add them to your existing chain probably as slaves. You shouldn’t have any issues with that at all.

Hope you enjoy them and if you need anymore help, let us know here in the forum :hugs:

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Hi Sandroid… Thanks.

Starr Labs Ztar as master controller to Pyramid.
One Pyramid Midi out goes straight to EMU PX-7 in… (drums mainly, but not exclusively) to keep drums as close to source as possible.

  1. Pyramid Master Sequencer (Midi out 2) sends to Kenton Thru x 5… ( Kenton Thru 5, via DIN in.)

  2. Kenton 5 Thru sends to Polyend Tracker and Play. (uses two Kenton 5 Thru out DIN’s ( sending via two micro-jack to DIN leads to Tracker and Play’s respective Midi inputs))

  3. Medusa receives Midi in, via one more Midi out from Kenton 5 Thru. (Three Kenton’s Thru used so far)

  4. Medusa sends daisy chained Midi out to Roland XV 50-50 rack.

  5. Medusa is addressable via Pyramid and so is Roland rack maybe, via receive channel settings)

  6. Then 1 more DIN out from Kenton Thru 5 sends to Yamaha QY700.
    (four Kenton Thru Midi out’s used so far)

  7. QY700 sends Midi DIN (A) out to Blofeld

  8. QY 700 sends DIN (B ) out (another 16 channels ) to 2 x Proteus 2500’s

  9. One DIN out of the Kenton 5 Thru spare so far, and all sequencers addressable from main controller although some via secondary sequencer QY700.

This would seem at first glance to be workable (and seriously powerful !!!) although with a lot of dividing send and receive channels up, and a lot of making sure that all sequences coming from different sequencers are all loaded, clocking, and correct.

Methinks it may be do-able, and a lot of programming, but all fairly straightforward…
All sequences including Play and Tracker (the latter Polyend pair if needed) could also be addressable from the Ztar controller or alternatively from keys…

I would think that most of it would fit in a flight-case with a small mixer, cabled up and ready to go, and with a Kenton Control Freak added strategically somewhere :slight_smile:

Seriously powerful!! :slight_smile:
richard
BG

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Once you have it all setup, make sure to share a picture. I’m looking forward to see this monster :laughing:

Just keep in mind that Polyend uses TRS-B and then you should be good. The Devices also come with a DIN to TRS Adapter just in case.

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Hi Sandroid et all.

I took delivery of a new Tracker and a Play last week from Thomann. The tracker kept crashing, but I persevered with the Play, and I also bought a second -hand and as new Play for 350 euros off e-bay.

The second hand Play had an older OS, so I just swapped cards and installed new OS firmware on the older one in about two minutes. Very easy procedure.

The Tracker, I didn’t like at all. I thought the workflow so slow and convoluted, and it kept crashing / freezing, and it was impossible to shut it down with the rear power switch. . Maybe the cheap Sandisk micro SD card was to blame… I don’t know, but I think if I did ever want a Tracker, I shall just buy Renoise.

I do like the two Plays though, and use them working together like a colourful Seq…as front-end step sequencer/s for Pyramid.
Midi out capability and ease of programming and generative functions are impressive. Audio, not so much IMO. I haven’t had time to use Medusa with them yet.

But as I work with the Plays, I like them more and more, (except for the horrible piano samples, which IMO sound like someone who’s deaf, banging a metal pipe, and there are also some tedious drum samples lurking around in there, but of course I can build my own libraries and import them.)

.But overall, Play x 2 is GREAT! and I’m a very happy camper. and glad I didn’t buy a Hapax or an Oxy One.

best regards

richard
BG

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Hey @napravobg , thanks for the update and i’m happy to hear you are liking the Play(s) :partying_face:

Constant crashes on the Tracker definitely sounds odd, as it has been extremely stable for me for a very long time. The usual culprits are either a unstable SD card or the way the tracker is powered.
The workflow however is indeed something that people either love or hate.

If i may ask, what exactly did you find slow or convoluted exactly in the time that you used it?
It’s always good to hear someone elses perspective! :heart: