Keygroup Splits and Layers

[gravedraq]

What is the problem?

Every track & part is currently working monophonic.

What should this feature achieve?

The ability to set Keygroup Splits and Layers between instruments and midi channels for better performance features from external midi keyboards.

Are there any workarounds?

N/A

Any links to related discussions?

N/A

Any references to other products?

All 90s Akai and E-mu samplers have the ability to do this.

[Sandroid]

Hey @gravedraq , couple questions:

@gravedraq

Keygroup Splits and Layers between instruments

So what you are asking for is a multi-sample instruments that can have different audiofiles assigned to different keygroups (which can be either one note or a range of notes)?

@gravedraq

midi channels for better performance features from external midi keyboards.

And i’m guessing the same for a midi instrument so it could be mapped across different devices and/or channels?

Thanks for clarifying

[gravedraq]

There are two topics here.

Splits

Maybe an example:

What Is Key Split?

Now Imagine within the Polyend Tracker environment to assign more parts, instrument or synth-engines on the same channel.

Layers

The ability to layer 2 samples to be triggered simultaneously from the same channel.

[Sandroid]

@gravedraq

Splits

Ah multi-timbrality! Check here:

Support for multitimbrality

Hi @callistixrs , thanks for your wish. After discussing with the team, we are sorry but we decided to make a design decision not to support multitimbrality at this point. We accepted your other wish, Change Instrument via in MIDI Synth Mode and we hope you can still make the Instrument Synth feature useful that way. Thanks for contributing once again and best regards

This wish was originally for the OG Tracker and was declined as you can see.
But maybe now with the Mini / Tracker+ this is back on the menu?

If you want i could resurrect this wish and you can add your comment to it and/or rewrite/rephrase the original wish?

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And now for the other wish - by the way for the future: please only do one feature per wish . Thank you!

Anyway…

@gravedraq

The ability to layer 2 samples to be triggered simultaneously from the same channel.

So technically polyphony on a single step. Multiple notes (even if it is the same note) played on the same step (but in your case just different instruments). Correct?

I’m not sure if this will be accepted, but i don’t think there has been a wish requesting this yet. So if you can, i’d say please rewrite this wish with this Layer functionality in mind.

As a workaround / idea for now - why not render/resample the two samples together?

[gravedraq]

Yeah the idea looks similar, so it would proably be rejected as not being on the “design map”

It is not easy to explain “keygroup” in words.

Another good example but on a sampler instead of a keyboard: (to visually illustate it)

AKAI S3000XL: creating keygroups

Step 1: You sample 2 separate samples
Step 2: on your arranger or performance view you choose from where the the samples starts and end plus the root note for each. (Aka the split), if he in the video set the two samples to overlap each over on the “key map”, then they are layered layered.

[gravedraq]

@Sandroid

I’m not sure if this will be accepted, but i don’t think there has been a wish requesting this yet. So if you can, i’d say please rewrite this wish with this Layer functionality in mind.

As a workaround / idea for now - why not render/resample the two samples together?

The question is interest, because it inspires another idea. If you could layer 2 or more parts/instruments and trigger simultaneously that would make some very complex sounds. (Manually do: make 2 tracks with the same note and two different parts being triggered)

[Sandroid]

Ok thanks for the video. Now it is clear to me (i think) what you were trying to convey.
That video was actually really helpful at illustrating what you want.

Keygroups: could also be considered multi-timbrality or another possible way to achieve the same thing would be a multisample-instrument.

If the goal is to play multiple different “sounds” at the same time on the keybed/pads, then it’s usually considered multi-timbrality. Which is exactly what the wish i posted earlier wanted:

Support for multitimbrality

Hi @callistixrs , thanks for your wish. After discussing with the team, we are sorry but we decided to make a design decision not to support multitimbrality at this point. We accepted your other wish, Change Instrument via in MIDI Synth Mode and we hope you can still make the Instrument Synth feature useful that way. Thanks for contributing once again and best regards

If you want an a single instrument that could contain multiple different sounds that don’t overlap or play at the same time, this could be something a multi-sample instrument could solve. There was a wish for this as well, which sadly was declined also:

Tracker/mini : Multisample Instrument and Playback Engine

What is the problem? Currently the Polyend Tracker or Mini is able to produce synth sounds using single samples pitched-up or down or using wavetables. Both methods provide already a good source of synthesized sounds and sound design capabilities. However, some of the sounds can’t be grabbed and reproduced accurately and with high fidelity using these two methods; This wish is suggesting the addition of a “Multisample” instrument engine in which we could assign multiple .wav samples to differe…

Which brings us to Layering: the ability to have a single instrument that plays two samples/sounds at the same time at the press of a button.

This you can already achieve by just resampling (as you said) two samples into a new sample. So placing two samples in two tracks and rendering them to a new sample.

I’m not sure what good a new playback mode for this would do? Unless you are thinking of specific features that are not available right now when just resampling?

[gravedraq]

Both ideas above were “rejected”, but at a time where there were no Tracker Plus. Has anything changed in that regard with the adaption of Tracker Plus?

@Sandroid

This you can already achieve by just resampling (as you said) two samples into a new sample. So placing two samples in two tracks and rendering them to a new sample.

Render 2 parts into one, makes it lesser alive, my thought was more like, that you could make small changes live to the desired part. Similar to how many synthesizers are designed, where parts are stacked. Example a Roland D-50, you have 2 parts which are bouncing between each other called Upper and Lower, you then dive into the desired part of make your changes.

[Sandroid]

AhA! See? There is more to it!

So essentially this wish should focus on a new type of playback mode/engine:

A possibility to combine 2 instrument/samples into one, while maintaining access to individual parameters per instrument/sample.

Did i get that right? If so, could you update your wish to reflect this?

[gravedraq]

That was not my original idea, but a new option inspired by your questions.

[Sandroid]

I know, but since the other two wishes were not accepted… we make new plans?

Unless you want to resurrect the old wishes and try again? Let me know, happy to do both

[gravedraq]

Maybe, the best would be to close this ticket and generate a new wish (clean slate), but with this as related parent ticket?

[Sandroid]

Sure, if you want me to i can close this and let’s start fresh!

[gravedraq]

Done

Link multiple instruments / parts

What is the problem? Activating more parts/instruments at same time and make small changes to the individual parts will give a more alive or complex sound design. What should this feature achieve? Activating more parts/instruments at same time and make small changes to the individual parts will give a more alive patch. Similar to how many synthesizers are designed, where parts are stacked. Example a Roland D-50, you have 2 parts which are bouncing between each other called Upper and Lower, you …

[Sandroid]

Closing this wish, as a new wish has evolved after discussions with the original creator of the wish.