What is the problem?
Users need a way to organize presets beyond the flat 1000-slot list without losing the value of the factory presets or disrupting existing MIDI workflows limited to presets 1–128.
The Mess currently uses a single flat preset list with 1000 preset slots on the microSD card, and the official preset-management actions are Save, Reorder, Delete, and Duplicate.
There is not way currently to move existing presets in groups to new preset address ranges (e.g., take presets 1-128 and move them to range 500 to 527).
And moving presets one by one with the existing on-pedal functionality is slow and error prone when doing this for large numbers of presets.
That creates a real workflow problem for users who want:
- to keep the factory presets,
- to organize their own presets by category or performance use,
- and to address presets cleanly over MIDI.
Incoming MIDI Program Change can access the first 128 presets.
So the core challenge is:
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How can one use Midi to access presets beyond the first 128 presets?
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How do you add a more organized bank-style workflow without breaking the current flat 1000-slot system and without disrupting users who already built their libraries around the first 128 preset slots?
What should this feature achieve?
Feature Objective
Add an optional bank abstraction on top of the existing flat 1000-slot preset model without breaking current preset indexing, save behavior, or MIDI Program Change workflows.
User Problem
The current system creates tension between two valid use cases:
- preserving factory and archival presets in the flat list, and
- maintaining a predictable MIDI-addressable performance range within presets 1–128.
As preset libraries grow, the flat model does not scale well for category-based organization, live-set grouping, or long-term library management.
Intended Outcome
The feature should improve user preset discoverability and performance usability by allowing users to assign presets to logical banks or groups, while preserving the underlying absolute slot structure for backward compatibility.
Compatibility Requirement
This should be non-destructive for existing users:
- existing preset slots remain unchanged,
- current users can ignore the feature entirely,
- existing MIDI workflows continue to function as they do today.
Product Benefit
This would make Mess more usable as both:
- an exploratory sound-design device with a large preset library, and
- a performance / production device requiring fast, intentional preset recall.
With 1000 preset slots already available, optional preset banks would expand practical MIDI recall beyond the current 1–128 Program Change range by letting users organize a much larger preset library into structured, performance-friendly groups.
A Possible Solution?
The safest solution is not to renumber or migrate everyone’s presets.
The safer solution is to add optional bank metadata on top of the existing flat preset list.
In other words:
- keep the current 1–1000 slot structure exactly as it is,
- but optionally allow a preset to also belong to a bank and a position within that bank.
That way:
- preset slot 237 is still physically slot 237,
- but it could also be tagged as something like Bank D / Position 12.
This is non-destructive because it preserves the underlying preset numbering that already exists.
When Would Banks Be Assigned?
A very logical place would be during preset save/naming.
That idea fits the current Mess workflow because the manual already shows:
- you hold Preset to enter the save menu,
- you get the naming screen,
- and preset save operations already happen there.
So a future firmware could extend that save flow to something like:
- Name
- Bank
- Position in Bank
That would feel natural because the user is already in the act of defining and saving a preset.
How Can The Two Workflows Coexist?
The key is to let both systems exist at the same time:
- Existing workflow: flat preset list
Presets continue to live in slots 1–1000 exactly as they do now.
Users who do nothing new are unaffected.
- New workflow: bank organization
Presets can optionally be assigned to a bank and bank position.
This would be an overlay, not a replacement.
That means current users keep their existing choices, while newer users can gradually adopt banks.
How Should MIDI Work If Both Systems Exist?
The official docs say:
- Mess responds to MIDI Program Change for preset switching,
- and the first 128 presets are accessible via incoming MIDI PC messages.
So for backward compatibility, the cleanest design would be:
- Absolute Mode: current PC behavior stays the same, still targeting the existing first 128 preset slots.
- Banked Mode: a new optional method could target bank + position.
That avoids breaking current users who already rely on the first 128 slots for MIDI recall.
The Main Design Principle
The most important idea we arrived at is this:
- A bank system should be additive, not destructive.
That means:
- no forced renumbering,
- no breaking existing preset-slot assignments,
- no invalidating older MIDI workflows,
- and no requirement that every user reorganize their library.
Are there any workarounds?
No.
Any links to related discussions?
Here’s one:
Here I name the problem with a “short-sighted” solution.
I think the Banks solution is far more interesting as it means MESS users can access many more presets.
Any references to other products?
Fractal Audio (Axe-Fx / FM Series)
Structure:
- Banks A, B, C… each with 128 presets
MIDI: - Uses Bank Select + Program Change