Synth Engines criticism/debate

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May I ask if I’m the only one who finds the synths somewhat difficult to use in a meaningful way when the project allows only three sounds across the entire set? That limitation alone makes it hard for me to see their practical use. You can create one nice pattern, sure but beyond that, building any kind of full live set feels nearly impossible.

On top of that, I personally find the sounds quite underwhelming. They feel flat, repetitive, and a bit cheap. The character is so minimal that in many cases, even a basic one-shot sample sounds far more dynamic and musically satisfying.

It gives the impression that the synths were created more for the sake of having synths, rather than for real creative utility.

So between the sound quality and the three-sound limitation, I find myself unable to use them effectively in a serious context.

I don’t deny that sometimes you can find rather good sounds, especially if you enhance them with FX Delay and Reverb, but still, it’s not the level of sound quality and functionality that I expect from digital devices in 2025.

What’s your opinion on this? I’d really like to hear how others approach it.

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I got my Synth to complement my OG Play.
Very often the Play is driving an analogue mono-synth for bass duties
(which why some of the midi perform mode short-comings are frustrating).
I’ve also used it alongside my OG tracker.
Its not there to be standalone just something that you can either play lead live or latch some notes for ambience.

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I personally don’t mind that limitation. The device - just like the tracker - invites to explore those limitations and be creative around them. It requires you to think outside the box to be creative with their uses.

i’ve seen people create full sets just with one device. Which is amazing. I don’t think i could do that myself. I personally would prefer two devices in DJ style setup though. That makes life a lot easier and you can just load other projects as you go along.

I feel like you can get a lot of versatility out of the 3 engine slots if you invest time and create macros for your patches. But yes, it’s not a device that allows you to quickly create outstanding patches. It takes time to create them. Obviously now that “Synth” is a thing, we all wish the UX for creating patches could be ported. I think this would make the use of those engines a lot easier.

Out of curiousity - which digital devices in the same price range do you believe have good sounding synths and a good sequencer?

With hardware there is always a tradeoff somewhere, especially if you try to have a competitive pricepoint :blush:

In my opinion: i think the Play is one of the most immediate sequencers on the market, even with it’s current limitations and shortcomings and makes for a great piece in almost any setup.

Would i personally just use the Play and nothing else? Most of the times, probably not.
I like to either use it as the brain or as a companion, so most of the times there is some other device involved. That doesn’t mean it can’t be used by itself :blush:.

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May I ask if I’m the only one who finds the synths somewhat difficult to use in a meaningful way when the project allows only three sounds across the entire set? That limitation alone makes it hard for me to see their practical use. You can create one nice pattern, sure but beyond that, building any kind of full live set feels nearly impossible.

I find the inability to program tempo changes to be more limiting, in my case, when it comes to creating a full live set. I honestly feel what is the most limiting about the synths are their UI’s. The monotony of the scrolling just does not lend itself to a good sound design flow. I have never bought a synth to use it’s factory presets, so not having a good UI or the ability to map these settings to a midi controller makes it all the more tedious to even want to use them to start a song. So for me, the Play+ synths are an after thought. I get the most use out of PERC because I like to side-chain the kick for smoother compressions. And had it the ability to smoothly change tempo, it would also be the leader of my rig🤷‍♂️ I do find myself wishing I had just an OG play for the price, but instead I bought 2 tracker mini’s about it because they can do all 3 of these things😂

I’m holding out, though. With a few more tweaks on the firmware (or the addition of some computer-side software​:crossed_fingers::grin::folded_hands:), you’d have to pry my fingers off it with a crowbar just to get me to stop using it haha!

On top of that, I personally find the sounds quite underwhelming. They feel flat, repetitive, and a bit cheap. The character is so minimal that in many cases, even a basic one-shot sample sounds far more dynamic and musically satisfying… It gives the impression that the synths were created more for the sake of having synths, rather than for real creative utility.

I don’t get the impression they sound cheap, necessarily. Repeative, sure (I’m lookin at you Pluck Man and London Bass from ACD👀), but that’s something I run across with just about every synth with presets. Hell, ableton get repetitive to my ears sometimes. I will give you that one-shots often sound better, but that’s probably because they’re currated a bit more. If polyend opened up the modulatable parameters (clock-sync’d params, lfo’s and envelopes, etc.), the synths would be much more “rich” in character. The macros are pretty cool, and I do appreciate the ability to create my own settings with them but, again, the UI is tedious when making adjustments to all 3 synths.

While I do think it’s entirely possible for someone to get a whole set on one project, I think that possibility is limited in scope by it’s inability to midi map the synth parameters and switch presets via midi, slow synth UI’s, and non-programmable tempo.

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It turns out the iPad beats any digital synthesizer, groovebox, or portable studio by all measures. Haha, it even has the full Logic Pro already ))

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Let me try and make a comparison:

Running a moderately complex Serum or Pigments patch can easily consume 20% - 50% on a single core of a modern desktop CPU.

So running something of the complexity of Serum or Pigments on embedded devices, is like trying to play high-end 3D video games on a calculator :rofl:

Higher end embedded microcontrollers are still maxed out at four cores nowadays. I don’t know when the last time was that you tried to run an operating system on a 2-4 core CPU. It’s NOT fun :grinning_face:

So it’s all about the cost of using these types of high powered cpu’s and the hardware required to run these. If you are a small company who doesn’t buy massive amounts of components, that cost still remains pretty high. And as we all know - consumers are really bad at understanding prices and/or unwilling to pay high prices - with a very few exceptions. :man_shrugging:

Hence why a lot of boxes usually either do one thing really well or do a lot of things OK for a moderate price.

Which brings us to my all time favorite triangle :laughing:

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I think that the engines sounds fantastic, the features depends on what engine you use, and I’ve done a full set with play+ and with the Synths. Personally I’m very happy with the Synths. I have a bunch and I’m absolutely sure that Polyend knows how to program sounds.

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Perhaps I expect too much from a digital synthesizer or I’m used to analog sound because I work a lot with Moog, Erica Synths, and others.

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It’s all about movement (slight pitch, filter, amp modulations) that will give you that.

The Hydrasynth for example did that quite cleverly with their “Warm Mode” settings. It’s something you can replicate with any digital synth though through modulation.

That said, i do have a soft spot for a good drifting analog oscillator. :heart:

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Just as a listener and owner /lover of synth. IMO the Polyend synth have a nice ‘‘lofy’ish’’ vibe .. very nice, not as glassy as the Rolands or VA like Akais but both companies along with the likes of NI Machine+ and even Ableton Move have a much stronger sound..

And none of the really compare to good analogs. Even cheap analogs like the New Berri Mini Jupiter will blow all these all away in presence and character .. But it’s not necessary always the desired results.

IMO The hydra sounds stunning, very strong and solid tone, snappy envelopes quality filters & FX .. Would not put the Polyend in the same league as the Hydra in any way, its one of the greatest digital synth in history IMO

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@sandroid Then try PWM Malevolant, no 2 octaves in tune. I honestly love this thing!

I use digitals with a little bit lfo and a spare env on finetune if possible.

For Polyend synths, ACD is really close to my sh101, do not forget plain vintage osc synths also sound boring on its own, the combination of clever patching, effects and sometimes even running it through guitar amps made these iconic sounds.

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I completely agree

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Lol well yeah, there’s always just going back to the box. I think at that point, it’s just a matter of workflows. I’d love 2 ipad pros running Komplete vst’s and a hapax, but I don’t think my bank account would agree​:joy::joy:

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For me, I’m still exploring the capabilities of this box. Some scenes are a bit dull, but some are spectacular though, interface makes it much more fun than mouse clicking. What I’m surprised it doesnt have is an EQ for each synth as its only the one output, panning helps but despite fiddling theres sometimes a frequency that interferes. Having owned synths etc for decades this one can be a lose yourself for 2 or 3 hours, which I’ve not done for many years! It certainly has ‘girth’ (:copyright: Nick Batt) for a digi box..

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I sold my hydrasynth. I tweaked a lot and tweaking the init patch gave me headaches. Didn’t like the sound and I tried and tried, bought one amazing BOC pack and in the end sold it. But with the polyend one I can get the lofo vibe that I’ve searching for. And the FM is fantastic.

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In your opinion maybe, but an iPad is just a computer, so as an objective statement it is flawed from the off. They all have their strengths, weaknesses, appeal, place, and purpose. I for one work at a computer all day. Last thing I want to do is sit at one to create music or noodle about. Nah, give me something like a Polyend Tracker Mimi and a pair of headphones. Sure, it’s still a “device” with a “screen” and inputs, but you get my point.

It’s strengths are in its limitations, and coming from the old Amiga Tracker days, is just fine for my uses. For everything else I have a Montage M.

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I like pie

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Mmm mmm! Polyend Pie+, my favorite :drooling_face:

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Let’s stick this in and listen to doughwaves

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I have one :rofl: But have only one midi track :frowning:

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