Q4 2024 - On communication, firmware updates and fixes

General
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We’ve been listening closely to your conversations about firmware updates and other issues on the forum. We hear you, and we appreciate the feedback. We feel that our biggest failure here has been communication, we are a busy team but are making a commitment to improve this. I will be posting a quarterly update with what is going on at Polyend, but sharing dates and specific features in the works is unlikely. It was a mistake to preview the features that we were working on, as this created a lot of anticipation, and we have been overly focused on complex feature requests, instead of bug fixes.

Based on your input, we’ve already made some changes and have more planned for the future. Those one-on-one chats with some of you were incredibly helpful – thanks for taking the time to reach out! And I add this just because people may not realize it, since we don’t use it as a marketing thing - but this really is a small employee owned company, not a corporation trying to maximize profits for shareholders or vacant owners. Mistakes will be made, but we will work hard to not repeat them.

Here’s what’s happening now:

  • New Beta Firmware for Play & Play+: We released a new beta firmware that focuses on bug fixes for these devices (without the MIDI update for now) to get those fixes out to you faster. More fixes and features are on the way for both Play and Play+.
  • Upcoming Beta for Tracker Line: There’s a beta for Tracker, Tracker+, and Mini in the works to address the Live Recording issues. We hope to release it publicly soon.

About the Beta Program:

All these updates are currently in closed beta, but we are continuing to add new testers. We want to be more transparent with you, the community, so here’s the deal:

  • We review all beta applications and invite people in batches. Don’t worry if you don’t get in right away – we’ll be adding testers as needed.
  • You can apply here. (Heads up, if your posts have been flagged for moderation in the past few months, you may not be eligible at the moment.)
  • We are also currently discussing internally how we want to proceed with our approach to updates and firmware testing but we are not ready to share this with you as we are still formalizing how we want to do this in the future with more openness in mind.

I think more transparency is key moving forward as it may not be apparent to you all how passionate about these devices the Polyend team is, this isn’t a corporation with some suit at the top micro-managing and directing the creatives. Everyone is using these devices, with many of us using them as our primary instruments. I’m very proud to be part of this creative, enthusiastic, and inventive team and we want Backstage to be a place where you all can see this too. We want to create a positive space for you to share experiences, learn from each other, and enjoy making music with our instruments. We’re committed to continuous improvement, and we are sorry if we haven’t always met your expectations.

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Thank you @Mitch and to the Polyend team! It is good to read you!
Quarterly updates are nice!
Now let’s groove!

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Thank you for the Update.

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Personally, I don’t see it as a mistake. Customers may keep the device instead of selling it in a rush, if there is a feature they really need that is in the active development. Waiting for a year or two and getting features you don’t want – that is the real bummer (for that user; others may appreciate it).

:orange_heart:

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:sunglasses: Allow me to speak on behalf of all the “revolutionaries” who have actively engaged in lively discussions lately and express support for Polyend.

I’ve had a hard time coming to terms with the long updates and bugs in the product, but…

  1. The Polyend team has responded to all our criticism. We have an official statement, and it deserves respect.

  2. We’ve discovered that Polyend is not the kind of company we picture when we talk about other major musical equipment suppliers.

Polyend—as I understand it—is a small, niche, boutique company where musicians create products for musicians?

If that’s the case, then I can confidently say that in this situation, the team is giving their 200%. The fact that many see Polyend as a large company proves that the team is doing a big job, and doing it well—products, design, packaging, videos, tutorials, shipping, sales…

I understand that we all want perfect equipment and always want more and better. But we must consider the unique style of Polyend’s team and their approach.

No one ever makes mistakes on purpose. It’s a simple truth.

For me, Polyend remains equipment #1. I pondered long and hard and answered these questions:

  1. Am I ready to give up Polyend products? - NO.
  2. Am I ready to wait for updates and improvements? - YES.
  3. Does it make sense to continue “pressuring” the Polyend team given their unique approach? - NO.
  4. Does the Polyend team correct mistakes and strive to be better? - YES.
  5. If you combine all the pros and cons that exist today, are any drawbacks really that frightening? - Absolutely NOT.

As dissatisfied users, we were heard. That’s the most important thing.

We need to continue supporting Polyend and approach all the challenges the team faces with understanding.

As this situation has shown, I believe that support will influence the team more positively than criticism.

From Polyend’s perspective, I’m confident that simple reports on what’s happening with the products would be enough to prevent the situation from reaching a boiling point.

:black_heart:

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Thanks @Mitch and the whole Polyend team for making some things a little bit clearer now. :pray:t3:

I do wish that from now on you will prove all your haters that they were wrong. Because to be honest…other manufacturers are also battling with bugs and issues. That’s something we all shouldn’t forget.:wink:

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I don’t mean to be rude here, but this doesn’t really resolve my £699 machine(Play+) being unusable due to consistent crashes/lose of data, while being promised time & time again it’d be fixed before summer, then before the end of summer, then before the end of the year.

Due to said promises I’m far past my return date, so I’ve basically got a £700 paperweight sat in my cupboard!

I’m trying my hardest to be patent, as Play+ has tons of potential, & sounds great when it works, but it’s getting to be beyond a joke now, especially when releasing more products, instead of fixing the ones already released!

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Thank you for the transparency. This let us know you are listening to your costumers and I think this is a good way.

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Mate, I appreciate the work you and the team at Polyend do. I understand you’re a small team, things take time, I understand what that’s like too.

But good things comes to those who wait, and despite the bugs, there’s always a workaround while Polyend works on those bugs.

I know communication has been minimal, but never doubted you guys for second, keep up the good work Polyend :raised_hands:

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I think it is a testament to the community and the devices that Polyend seems much bigger than it is. My theory is that Tracker seems so ubiquitos online because most people that own it are actually making music and sharing their creations with it. Probably the same with other trackers. However, Trackers are still very niche.

I was secretly hoping Ableton Move would be a Tracker, to kick it into the mainstream.

Also I am sorry for communicating with you unfairly and out of frustration. I am going to spend more time on backstage so it doesn’t get to that point again.

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On Play+ consistent crashes:

We have been puzzled by some of the reports of random crashes we weren’t experiencing. If your devices crashes randomly and cannot be consistently recreated(there are crash fixes in beta now for recreatable crashes) we are investigating this now but think this may be due to USB cables:

  1. All USB cables are not created equal. There is no USB standard, I found using the cheapest cables from Amazon plugged into my computer seems to be causing my Play+ to randomly crash. While using the factory cable i never experienced this.
  2. Current draw via USB is more demanding than Play so a non-factory USB cable might work for Play and not Play+.

My advice for now while we look into it is to use factory cables or if using USB-C is to use high quality USB-C to USB-C cables(Iphone ubsc cable works great for me).

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If it were July 2024 I would have completely understand this decision, but if a handful of bug fixes is the only thing we’ll see after such a long time, then I really would like and appreciate some more information on such a big delay. At least, that is what I would call ‘transparent’.

So yes, I’m really looking forward for you communicating more actively with your community here on Backstage. Hopefully you can share some progress or sneak peeks to keep the fans engaged and informed. Maybe that would change my current opinion.

When it comes to being a Beta tester, I don’t see it as a privilege, it’s more of a favor from me as a customer to a company. And, if there’s nothing ‘new’ to be shared or tested, then please feel free to give my seat to someone else.

And yes, I still think Play is a great product! It is very inspirational, as it’s a quick and very direct ideas generator. It works nicely as a sequencer with my SP-404mk2 (or other gear). Therefore I think it’s a shame your team killed-off a feature request for ‘simply’ adding a ‘project option’, that would switch the main Audio sequencer into 8 extra MIDI lanes. But hey, only 8 lanes were part of the deal, so no offense there.

But man, am I disappointed in Polyend as a company (when it comes to Play, my first Polyend product). Waited so long for fixes. Waited so long for very promising MIDI features, and now it seems that this wait isn’t over yet. In the meantime I’m way beyond a return date, so the only thing I can do is wait. And no, I’m not dependent of the Play… but it’s still very frustrating how business is done nowadays. It seems lowering TTM is key, without really planning for the negative consequences.

I’m sorry to say, but I’m not a happy customer. As it seems Play is developed by a totally different team, I don’t understand why only bug fixing has taken so long. Instead of more words, I really would like to see some action.

Regards,
Maik

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To add on to this, using an adapter helps rather than plugging the cable in to a USB port or slot on a power strip. I had an issue on my OG play with midi, and turned out to be exactly what you described. Adapter fixed it on my old play and Play+

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You know, I was frustrated for a long time as a customer, but eventually, I realized a few simple truths:

  1. Polyend is a product of musicians, enthusiasts, and a small company that is just starting its journey. Like any young company, it is entitled to make mistakes. It’s about experimentation, gaining fresh experiences, and creating something unique—an always challenging and arduous path. It’s far easier to produce replicas of existing products, just like Behringer does. Creating meaningful digital products from scratch in a new form is much more complex. Even companies like Tesla, Apple, and many others face difficulties. Even SpaceX doesn’t launch its rockets successfully on the first try. Innovation certainly demands sacrifices.
  2. When I was upset and frustrated while waiting for bug fixes and updates, I realized that my negativity could indeed cause problems for the company (such as unfavorable product reviews), but does the company truly deserve such destruction from my side? Did they do something wrong to intentionally harm me? No. Why ruin and make things worse for something you love?
  3. The most compelling argument is that somehow, without my advice, criticism, or concern, the team managed to create a product that I bought and fell in love with. What does this mean? It means that the people at Polyend know what they’re doing. Let’s simply trust them, ease the pressure, and remember that they are not a corporate giant. While this doesn’t excuse some weak spots and long updates, it does justify that they’re a team of enthusiasts creating an incredible product at the starting line of their business.

They might make business mistakes, and that’s okay. It’s part of the growth, improvement, and development process. Personally, I choose unique, interesting, and innovative products that require patience over mediocre and dull ones.

Moreover, I am convinced that if we were to step into the shoes of Polyend, we would perceive everything differently. We don’t know the tremendous efforts they put in to provide us with what we already have. It might seem that fixing a bug or adding some functionality is easy, but I am sure that if it were truly that easy, we would already have it all.

Just imagine for a moment that you have to create a Polyend Tracker from scratch—from the design and code to setting up production, packaging, global sales, and resolving all legal issues. I think it’s a monumental journey. We shouldn’t devalue it just because we wait long for updates. Polyend will undoubtedly make things right, especially if we continue to support and inspire them. Just like us, they need to believe in their product, but if we say something negative, it can be very demotivating and extinguish their energy and enthusiasm on a purely human level.

Polyend truly impressed us with the amazing Polyend Play - it’s a fantastically convenient groovebox, a brilliant idea brought to life. The Tracker is an incredibly cool product, with its striking appearance, large display, and scrolling data, making it a joy to admire aesthetically. And the Tracker Mini? Just look at everything they’ve created—each product is uniquely genius and innovative in its own right.

Isn’t it worth being patient, to simply understand the people who work so hard for us and love what they do, and just offer them our support?

Moreover, Mitch has apologized to us countless times, acknowledged the mistakes, and genuinely wants to rectify the situation.

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I’m sorry, I don’t have to place myself into any other perspective than that of a customer. I’ve paid the requested full price for a product. The product isn’t complete and/or completely stable. The first I’m willing to accept, as I’ve bought a product with the advertised specs at that point in time. The second are bugs that aren’t fixed ever since.

So yes, we are all people and we all make mistakes. Companies consist of people, so companies make mistakes, too. Absolutely no problem there! Also no sorry needed. Things happen, that’s life. Just be honest and open about it, and clearly communicate on how you’re going to fix it.

But if you have resources to develop and release new products, then I may expect you to release bug fixes to previously sold products in a timely manner. We’re not talking about a couple of weeks here. As they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating… so please serve us some delicious pudding.

That’s all I have to say about it.

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I’m really sorry you see it that way. Some people see the spirit in being part of a community that share enough of a passion to all take a bit of their time to make great products even better.

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Yes, that I can see, especially when a company actively participates in a ‘backstage community’ and products are less or more co-created.

Otherwise it’s a ‘user community’, that in this case consists of customers helping each other out, share tips and tricks, etc. and is used by the company to share some spare information.

At this point we are talking about beta testing bug fixes, that should have been in development for a long time now. That I’ve said, I see it as a favor to the company. But I’m repeating myself, saying I need to see some action from Polyend. It’s a game of give take.

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The Polyend team has fixed the issues in the new beta version that were bothering me. I no longer have major complaints about the product. I am looking forward to the final release and will continue to enjoy the product. The development of new features is another story.

Yes, as a customer, you have every right to be upset, write negative reviews, and complain. But I would rather have my beloved Polyend than be without it. I tried going back to other products and realized that I’m willing to wait as long as it takes :see_no_evil:.

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97zmyn
97zmyn500×542 85.7 KB
:man_facepalming:

Ironic memes aside, as a developer myself I perfectly understand the struggle of creating a product and the difficulties of dealing with code and community wishes.

So here it comes an ode to no one:

Many people thinks of us developers as techno wizards, nothing further from the truth, software development is harder than it seems, we cannot simply wave our magick wands and make quality software happen, specially given the amount of different use cases and situations that can arise of the million variations and complexities derived from use of our products.

Think about big companies like korg, roland, ubisoft, rockstar or microsoft. They have literally thousands of people working on products to be shipped anually. When customers get a weekly or monthly update, it doesn’t mean developers have worked on it for the last week, further from the truth… It means thousands of people have been working very hard for months or weeks, even years in advance to be able to deliver that iteration of the software, specially if/when a certain quality level is needed.

Also we must keep in mind that a medicine doctor or a building architect works with a science millenia old, while computers in general is a science in it’s infancy (Please do remember the first computers are less than a hundred years old from now). They have had thousands of years to develop their sciences, while we, computer scientists don’t even have a “common language” to speak… As many other scientists do. (See what I did there? :smile: )

Of course that as a customer I am entitled to get as many updates and maintenance as humanly possible, but, again, we must keep in mind that the companies that deliver in an orderly scheduled manner are composed of hundreds or thousand of people and the customer does not receive the work of these thousands of people en a single update, but the work of a few of them each time, because these teams work in parallel to achieve that continuous delivery, and the customer only gets the result of like a few hundred, for a few months, each week.

Once again, I sincerely appreciate the incredible amount of work that such a small team as polyend is able to deliver :clap: :clap: :clap:.

To the consumers I just can ask to muster your patience, which I know is difficult to do, but remember that no brand, call it korg, elektron, akai, roland, apple, or microsoft can deliver exactly what you want exactly when you need it.

As a consumer myself I try to be thankful of what I get, follow the manufacturers indications (Yes, RTFM, sorry :man_shrugging: ) and enjoy what I get because what I get was unimaginable a hundred years ago, yes, no product is not perfect, because all products are done by humans and, by definition, no human is perfect, therefore every product is created at the image and likeness of the humans that create it … (And don’t think AI is going to solve these problems, at least in it’s current iterations)

EDIT: How i’d love to develop software vs how it actually works

NOTE to mods: This comment is meant to defend all developers out there, if you think it is unappropiate in any way, please feel free to delete it (But don’t flag my account in any way haha :smiley: )

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I am new to Polyend and indeed, devices like this as well. I too, welcome and appreciate this statement about communication. While I found the manuals confusing and I struggled at first with the Play+ I am now getting to grips with it.
I too am surprised by the reports of crashes - I have had what seem to be odd things happening sometimes, that may be just my own fault, no crashes at all. Although I don’t always use the provided cables I am careful to use good ones. I have experienced the same type of issues being reported with devices from another company while I have had experienced none of them.
Yes, there are features I’d like to see come, and some things that I feel could have been done better but I have been impressed by the Play+. Thanks for this update.