Live recording - too much OFF commands

What is the problem?

Hi

Did you guys already tried to record arpeggio or sequence from external midi controller into a single track?
For example from Arturia KeyStep. The source doesn’t matter actually.
It must be recorded in live recording mode of course (Rec+Play).
The problem is the OFF command.
It’s impossible to record all notes because OFF commands will cover all even notes.

What do you want to achieve?

I want to store in one track my favourite sequence or arpeggio from external gear.

Are there any workarounds?

To double increase song tempo in tracker. But synchro can’t be kept this way.
To dump seq/arp into two tracks. That means a lot of manual changes after.

Solution?

Initially I thought about “record without OFF” option in config->general.
This is too much of simplification, of course. We do not want to erase breaks between notes.

How about not saving note-off (OFF command) in track in case next note comes at the same time?
Currently during midi playback (Mxx instruments inside the track) tracker sends note-off already before every note without OFF command and this is perfectly enought,
The exception is the first note in track - why?

Any links to related discussions?

Any references to other products?

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Thanks for another fine well-thought wish @pitmast! Everything looks good except I find the first sentence a bit confusing. When you say

Do you think this could be simplified as “when recording live”? Other than that it’s perfect :slight_smile:

Hi

Updated.
Thank you for your help.

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My pleasure!

Hi @pitmast , thanks for your wish. We don’t want to complicate or change design of the recording as long as there are simple workarounds for this use case. If not, then we’d consider it more a bug than a wish, to be honest. Here are some ideas:

  • have you tried changing the note gate/length of the arpeggios? We assume 100% gate (depending on device generating the Arp) would make note ends/starts very close to each other and could easily confuse the receiving device in playback/recording of the notes. We suggest using a smaller gate length, like 75% for example, depending on Arp speed and general tempo of the song.
  • have you tried using different Config Recording options in Tracker? Using Microtiming?
  • as you mention, recording across more than one track is an option too
  • finally, Tracker also has Arp FX which could be used instead

Please let me know if any of this solves your case. Thanks again for contributing to our wish list :slight_smile:

Hi @miropoly
Thanks for your feedback :slight_smile:

I’ve tried options with very short gate and recording with micro-timing.
These are really good ideas I thought.
Unfortunately tracker stores OFF command after every note at the same time. To be sure I checked it with very slow tempo. The step reserved by OFF can’t be used for next note.
Note length and micro-timing doesn’t matter.

Of course It is pretty possible to record complete arpeggio on two tracks. But we perfectly know if both source and tracker are synchronised and arpeggio is monophonic it should occupy only one single track.

Arp FX is not much useful in live recording.

Best regards
Piotr

Hi @pitmast ,
thanks for your comment. Now I see what you mean. Only way I could record a 1/16 arp is to set Tracker to double tempo so that the note offs don’t overlap with incoming notes. If that’s the case, then we have to use 2 tracks to capture both: closing previous note and opening another one. I didn’t have problem recording 1/8 arps for example. This needs to be rediscussed with the development team.

I’m sorry, but I don’t agree with this. This is the nature of the Tracker concept. Note OFF is a sequence event that takes space of a step in the pattern and is as important as any other event. Everything inside it is designed around these constraints. The tracker sequencer “grid” simply has a “low resolution”, and that why it’s very capable of some things, while it lacks other qualities :slight_smile:

I meant more in terms of achieving the same result (an arpeggio) using internal, rather than external source. But I am not sure about the exact result you want to achieve of course :slight_smile:

We will need more time to review this, thanks for your input and patience.

There are many things to love about the tracker and polyend: it sounds great, its nicely made, and customer service is incredible.

Having said that, I can sympathise with pitmast. Trying to live record is frankly useless. So it’s disappointing to read the above and hear it’s functioning as intended, with no intention of change.

When inputting notes on a single track in step recording mode, it cuts off the note before it; Why not extend this simple concept to live record mode?

…and if the note ends before another begins, then ‘note OFF’ is a deserving sequence event.

Would it really go against “The Nature of the Tracker Concept” to make this an option?

2 Likes

Thanks @ilovedrums247 for understanding.

I think something like “overwrite midi events” option for recording would be good solution.

@ilovedrums247 and @pitmast , thank you for your feedback. As I said above, we will need more time to review this and evaluate the effort and possible consequences.

I am really sorry you think so. Please describe the issues you’re having in more detail and log them as a Bug and we’ll look into it. Thanks again for your comments and support.

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I have brilliant idea, it will resolve the issue.
New option for recording - “with gates”

With such an option, in live recording tracker will add a gate fx to a note with value for instance 90 instead of storing a note and OFF command in following step at the same time.

What do you think guys?

I too feel like this problem needs some thought. disabling Note Off in config → general would be a good start. especially when working with percussive sounds that don’t need a note off. being able to turn it on and off easily would be already a good solution to me.

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@here Thanks for your contribution, the wish is now ready for voting! :slight_smile:

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Just to be clear about the outcome: most likely we would go with simplest solution proposed in this wish description :slight_smile:

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